Comments on: Testing the Thesis http://whippersnapper.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/testing-the-thesis/ Wed, 23 Dec 2009 04:11:39 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: The Real Problem With The New Republic « Pax Americana: Culture, Politics, and Ineffectual Debate http://whippersnapper.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/testing-the-thesis/#comment-1691 The Real Problem With The New Republic « Pax Americana: Culture, Politics, and Ineffectual Debate Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:08:47 +0000 http://whippersnapper.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/testing-the-thesis/#comment-1691 [...] Real Problem With The New Republic Jump to Comments Although I agree with some of the recent discussion about The New Republic enabling conservative nonsense, I’d also like [...] [...] Real Problem With The New Republic Jump to Comments Although I agree with some of the recent discussion about The New Republic enabling conservative nonsense, I’d also like [...]

]]> By: John Cain http://whippersnapper.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/testing-the-thesis/#comment-1674 John Cain Mon, 27 Aug 2007 06:21:33 +0000 http://whippersnapper.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/testing-the-thesis/#comment-1674 I definitely agree with some of the specific criticisms of The New Republic, but I find the whole "aiding conservatives" line to be wholly problematic. Do all magazines that are viewed as liberal have to agree all the time, lest they aide the VRWC? Or are there certain minor issues where disagreement is OK, but others where the line has to be held? Where does "the movement" end and journalism begin? As someone who thinks TNR has published a lot of stupid arguments in their day, this still disturbs me. I definitely agree with some of the specific criticisms of The New Republic, but I find the whole “aiding conservatives” line to be wholly problematic. Do all magazines that are viewed as liberal have to agree all the time, lest they aide the VRWC? Or are there certain minor issues where disagreement is OK, but others where the line has to be held? Where does “the movement” end and journalism begin? As someone who thinks TNR has published a lot of stupid arguments in their day, this still disturbs me.

]]> By: Steven White http://whippersnapper.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/testing-the-thesis/#comment-1660 Steven White Mon, 27 Aug 2007 00:45:24 +0000 http://whippersnapper.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/testing-the-thesis/#comment-1660 TNR is viewed in general as a "liberal" publication, even though many leftie bloggers disagree with that label. When TNR publishes right-wing stuff, conservatives can say "Well, even liberals like TNR think ____ is a good idea." But when TNR publishes left-wing stuff, liberals can't make the opposite claim, because only a relatively small percentage of leftist bloggers actually think TNR is conservative. So when TNR talks about universal healthcare, it's not "even the conservative TNR thinks universal healthcare is a good idea." Instead, it's "the liberal TNR along with all the other more liberal magazines think universal healthcare is a good idea." It's not nearly *as* effective at shaping the intellectual debate as when they promote conservative policies. But even still, it's by no means an awful publication -- it just has its Very Major Moments. TNR is viewed in general as a “liberal” publication, even though many leftie bloggers disagree with that label. When TNR publishes right-wing stuff, conservatives can say “Well, even liberals like TNR think ____ is a good idea.” But when TNR publishes left-wing stuff, liberals can’t make the opposite claim, because only a relatively small percentage of leftist bloggers actually think TNR is conservative. So when TNR talks about universal healthcare, it’s not “even the conservative TNR thinks universal healthcare is a good idea.” Instead, it’s “the liberal TNR along with all the other more liberal magazines think universal healthcare is a good idea.” It’s not nearly *as* effective at shaping the intellectual debate as when they promote conservative policies. But even still, it’s by no means an awful publication — it just has its Very Major Moments.

]]> By: paxamericana http://whippersnapper.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/testing-the-thesis/#comment-1656 paxamericana Sun, 26 Aug 2007 23:30:36 +0000 http://whippersnapper.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/testing-the-thesis/#comment-1656 You've hit upon the essential weakness of the "even the Liberal New Republic" argument; if true, then the it must also logically apply to all the <i>liberal</i> policies they support (or as Michael Kinsely<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/13/books/review/Kinsley-t.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5088&en=e7b693e82748de2f&ex=1336708800&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss" rel="nofollow">called it</a>,"even the Conservative New Republic"). You’ve hit upon the essential weakness of the “even the Liberal New Republic” argument; if true, then the it must also logically apply to all the liberal policies they support (or as Michael Kinselycalled it,”even the Conservative New Republic”).

]]> By: Mike Meginnis http://whippersnapper.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/testing-the-thesis/#comment-1649 Mike Meginnis Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:49:52 +0000 http://whippersnapper.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/testing-the-thesis/#comment-1649 It's not that TNR can make anything happen. The argument they're making -- and I don't know much about this, though it sounds plausible and I have my own reasons to loathe the magazine -- is that TNR provides ideological cover for people who would promote TNR's more right-oriented policies of choice regardless. This doesn't actually make the policies measurably more likely to be used, because the people in power would find cover somewhere else if TNR didn't give it to them, and in any case cover's importance is highly overrated. Still, that's the argument. For my part, I just wish they weren't shockingly ignorant. It’s not that TNR can make anything happen. The argument they’re making — and I don’t know much about this, though it sounds plausible and I have my own reasons to loathe the magazine — is that TNR provides ideological cover for people who would promote TNR’s more right-oriented policies of choice regardless.

This doesn’t actually make the policies measurably more likely to be used, because the people in power would find cover somewhere else if TNR didn’t give it to them, and in any case cover’s importance is highly overrated. Still, that’s the argument.

For my part, I just wish they weren’t shockingly ignorant.

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