Everyone’s a Little Queer / Why Can’t You Be a Little Straight?
Posted by Matt Zeitlin on May 25, 2007
Mary Peretz’s very own Lloyd, err, assistant to the editor-in-chief, has a post up on the Plank complaining that according to Shrum’s Edwards bashing memoir:
In his new memoir, “No Excuses: Concessions of a Serial Campaigner,” Shrum recalls asking Edwards at the outset of that campaign, “What is your position, Mr. Edwards, on gay rights?”
“I’m not comfortable around those people,” Edwards replied, according to Shrum. He writes that the candidate’s wife, Elizabeth, told him: “John, you know that’s wrong.”
Kirchik goes on to get all Samuel L in SOAP on Edwards ass, angrily declaring:
“Those people?” So much for Ann Coulter’s suggestion that Edwards is a friend of Dorothy.
Frankly, I don’t see how someone who is admittedly “not comfortable” around any sort of American–whether they be black, Chinese, poor, or gay–is fit to be president.
James has a pretty good point, of course Edwards should not be so fidgety and uncomfortable around “Americans,” but I think James, distracted by his deservedly righteous anger is missing a few points. One, being from North Carolina, Edwards probably didn’t know very many openly gay people growing up. Now, it’s easy for us tolerant people with lots of gay acquaintances to say how bizarre it is to be uncomfortable around them, but we might be glossing over something. When you’ve never really interacted with gay people and your only ideas of them are from your traditional community or church and the occasional rumor or TV show, there’s something alien, odd, even queer about being gay. For many straight men, being attracted to women is so basic, so central to their conception of themselves, so self evident, that being attracted sexually to men is just mind boggling. Of course, after spending any amount of time with gay men, all these childish yet understandable notions evaporate. I feel that even for people who see racial divisions as silly or trivial are still likely to have lingering notions about homosexuals being fundamentally odd.
Now Edwards, as far as we know, isn’t a bigot, isn’t intolerant and has never called a gay man a fag or treated one inappropriately. This will not stop “heterodox” gay journalists like Sullivan and Kirchick from bashing Edwards for being just another bigoted Democrat who uses gays to his political advantage and then gives them nothing in return. Though he isn’t for gay marriage, he opposed the marriage amendment, supports ending DADT, supports ENDA and supports the expansion of hate crimes so as to include violence done against gays. He is by all accounts, for American politicians, if not progressive, at least a mainstream supporter of gay rights.
Additionally, I think its the basis of the liberal society we should try to cultivate in America that someone can be “uncomfortable” with gays in the private sphere, yet in the public sphere, he can advocate policies he knows are fair and promote social and legal equality, because he thinks these values are important. We shouldn’t bash politicians as being not good enough on gay rights if they have common, residual cultural prejudices or even discomfort with gays, yet they still, in their heightened position in the public sphere, advocate on behalf of gays. John Edwards may not be perfect, but lets not call him a bigot or a dishonest supporter of gay rights, especially when the other party is built on bigotry and disdain for homosexuals.
May 25, 2007 at 4:11 am
“This will not stop ‘heterodox’ gay journalists like Sullivan and Kirchick from bashing Edwards for being just another bigoted Democrat who uses gays to his political advantage and then gives them nothing in return.”
The gripe here is that Democrats get a pass for a stance that would be designated as “objectively anti-gay” if the subject were a Republican. Romney, like Edwards, falls somewhere in the middle on the gay issue, displeasing activists on both sides. But he was torn to shreds yesterday on Towleroad for opposing same-sex marriage (which Edwards also opposes):
http://www.towleroad.com/2007/05/mitt_romney_i_a.html
May 25, 2007 at 4:46 am
Edwards is from North Carolina, not South–and believe me, there are plenty of gays in either state . . .
YOu got this right, though:
I think its the basis of the liberal society we should try to cultivate in America that someone can be “uncomfortable” with gays in the private sphere, yet in the public sphere, he can advocate policies he knows are fair and promote social and legal equality, because he thinks these values are important.
May 25, 2007 at 4:52 am
I believe the actual lyric is “why can’t SHE be a little straight”. Sorry, somehow Weezer pedantry comes naturally.
May 25, 2007 at 5:47 am
Oh yeah, the Republican party is built on hatred of gays. No evidence needed for that.
Of course, Fred “God hates fags” Phelps is a Democrat.
And so is Pennsylvania State Senator Vincent Fumo, who repeatedly yelled “faggot” at a fellow senator on the senate floor.
What does that say about Democrats? Actually, nothing. But hey, it’s at least two more points of data than what you have.
Or is that hate-crimes-law opposition all the evidence you need? Apparently the lack of desire to criminalize an opinion equals support for that opinion.
Lay off the baseless accusations, whippersnapper.
May 25, 2007 at 6:56 am
This is the Mickey Kaus position on gay rights, is it not? http://bloggingheads.tv/video.php?id=42&tid=81
I think that Mickey’s reaction to Brokeback Mountain and subsequent coverage of allegedly straight-unfriendly bars/coffee-shops in LA set off Sully. I don’t understand why Sully would support politicians who may be personally comfortable with members of his particular unfairly-maligned minority group (they might sleep on their couches when they get tossed out of the house by their soon-to-be ex-wives; or they might look the other way when they decide to chase underage tail) when they don’t support his group publicly.
May 25, 2007 at 8:01 am
I had a roommate (D.) in the late 80’s who was an aide to a very liberal state house speaker. We interviewed a guy to replace an outgoing roommate and D. confided in me that he was uncomfortable with the prospective new roommate because D. thought the guy was gay.
D. agonized about the discrepancy between his gut reaction and his political views. I told him that he didn’t need to be uncomfortable in his own home, but that he should work doubly hard in the statehouse to make sure that homosexuals weren’t discriminated against.
On a slightly different note, doesn’t Edwards have any gay staff that a surrogate could trot out/note? I do think it would be a problem if Edwards is so gay-phobic that he doesn’t hire any. The campaign is not a private realm.
May 25, 2007 at 8:05 am
While I agree with your point on public support even in the face of some personal discomfort, that really isn’t enough for a presidential candidate. Edwards should never have disclosed his personal feelings: it colors people’s perceptions on both ’sides’ of this issue of gay presence in society on the basis of equality.
I can’t be comfortable with Edwards now that I know that behind the scenes he is telling people of his discomfort. It speaks of a hypocrisy that is all too common and doesn’t need reinforcement. Does Edwards think this comment won’t be reported? Would not a similar comment about Moslems or Catholics or Republicans be viewed as stupid and unworthy of a national leader?
May 25, 2007 at 8:14 am
Has Bob Shrum ever said or done ANYTHING that wasn’t designed to promote his clientele and, by extention, Bob Shrum? What makes you think that this revelation is anything but a variation on the Lyndon Johnson story about forcing an opponant to deny something? They peel of natural constituancies in just this manner, by causing little cracks. Consider the messenger.
May 25, 2007 at 8:39 am
[...] response to a post by Ezra which was a response to a post by yon Whipper-snapper, commenter Fred Jones writes something that, for all its trollishness, gets to the heart of [...]
May 25, 2007 at 8:42 am
Eleanor Roosevelt once said of Franklin that he did not like spending private time with people like Jim Farley (a NYC irish pol who was FDR’s campaign manager/Postmaster General [which was an explicitly political post until the 1950's since post offices were a source of patronage]) but rather preferred to be with his own kind of people (i.e wealthy patrician upstaters). It is hard to argue that FDR was not, on the whole, good for poor Irish workers.
David (also from Oakland)
May 25, 2007 at 8:51 am
1. I don’t really know how much of the Shrum book to trust.
2. This is from 1998, right? I know that my Dad had similarly negative views of gay people around that time. I think I’ve talked him into a more reasonable position on the issue since then.
May 27, 2007 at 12:33 pm
Let’s see… Dubya — by all accounts perfectly “comfortable” around gay people — and Rudi — who lived with a gay couple between his various marriages — and Mitt — who once claimed to be a better friend to gay people than Ted Kennedy — are all perfectly willing to say what gay people can’t have: marriage, federally recognized civil unions, equality. And they’re quite happy to travel coast to coast talking about what a moral danger we represent, even going so far as to call us a threat to society.
John Edwards wants us to have equality (without the word marriage) but might not want to have dinner with us.
Gosh, such a hard decision…
May 27, 2007 at 1:23 pm
[...] 27th, 2007 Andrew Sullivan, comments on my previous post concerning why John Edwards being “not comfortable” with gays doesn’t really [...]
May 27, 2007 at 8:21 pm
nice weezer ref.
June 3, 2007 at 9:24 am
John Edwards’ discomfort with gay people makes many gay people like myself uncomfortable with him being president.